Does The Movement Really Matter? – The End Of The ETA Era
By now many of you would be aware that the makers of arguably the best known Swiss watch movements in the world, ETA (owned by the Swatch Group), have advised that they will stop providing ebauche movements (or blanks as they are commonly referred to) to any company outside of The Swatch Group by the end of 2010. The fallout of this decision could potentially be catastrophic for a number of the low to mid-range luxury watch brands who focus predominantly on the design and marketing of their products and rely on ETA made movements to power them.
In anticipation of this many brands have turned to another Swiss movement maker, Sellita. I recently read an excellent article about this manufacturer, specifically focusing on their new chronograph movement, on Perpetuelle’s excellent and always informative blog. If you haven’t had a chance to read it yet, I highly recommend it.
I must admit though that in recent times as I’ve been reading up on all the information about ETA’s plans and manufactures like Sellita stepping up the fill the void and so forth, I can’t help but ask myself “do consumers really care?”
Sellita SW500 Chronograph Movement – Image courtesy of Perpetuelle
It is an undeniable fact that the movement used to power a luxury watch is exceptionally important, especially when the movement is made or at least modified in-house by the manufacturer. However, when it comes to the more mainstream brands who simply make good-looking watches, does it really matter what movement is used, just as long as it is Swiss Made and of a reputable quality? I would suggest that in this price range and in these types of watches, the movement manufacturer is almost interchangeable.
Certainly there is no denying that ETA is a far more globally recongized brand name than Sellita, at least for the time being and my guess is in the short-term we’ll see more than one brand succumb to the pressure and join the Swatch Group, but in the long-run will it really make any difference?
Personally I don’t think so but maybe I’m wrong?
What do you think? We’d love to hear your thoughts on this rather topical issue so please do tell us in the comments section below.
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to “Does The Movement Really Matter? – The End Of The ETA Era”
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- Feb 10, 2010: ETA Withdrawal: The Fake Revolution ? | The Watch Lounge – the Online Watch Lover's Magazine
- Feb 11, 2010: Swiss Movement Powerhouse ETA Says “No More” | Marvin : Backstage
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To 90+% of people, I think the answer is no. We watch nuts sometimes I think forget how few we are compared to the overall watch market. I’ll temper that by adding that ultra-high end products like MB&F, Richard Mille, et al. are another discussion entirely.
So whom do we have other than ETA in Europe right now: Claro, Sellita, Soprod, La Joux-Perret? Anyone else I’m missing?
A single data point, but I’ve had a $150 Panny “homage” for two weeks w/ a Seagull version of the ETA/Unitas pocket watch movt. (some flavor of the 6497?) and been very happy with it so far.
I think that between the smaller Swiss movement firms and the higher quality stuff now coming from the Far East the majority of the industry will see little waves, if any. I do however feel that Swiss firms that wish to remain strictly Swiss will opt to adjust to new manufacturers, and since ETA had such an enormous market share, and guessing there will be a bit of a gap until movement suppliers can catch up, there will be a pretty moderate price increase.
As far as ETA reputation, I think that we are seeing plenty of decent stuff coming from Sellita, Miyota, and even Sea-Gull to where the average buyer won’t even notice.
Just my guess.
Thanks for the great comments guys, keep them coming! You raise a very good point too Craig about possible price increases as demand outpaces supply in the short-term and it will be interesting to see how this effects some brands. If the price gets pushed up too high they may very quickly find themselves competing in the price range of far more established brands that offer in-house movements.
I wonder if this would potentially initiate a shift to cheaper Chinese made movements (which are undeniably improving in their quality) and how this would impact on the brands’ sales?
Speedmaster, don’t forget Jörg Schauer’s German made DUROWE movement. DUROWE will probably be a great alternative for ETA for German watch manufacturers.
I think at least Sellita is making drop-in replacements for some movements like the 7750 and 2824 that match the originals in every dimension, is that right?
Tom- hope you don’t mind me re-posting what I just wrote at Perpetuelle:
I do wonder if there hasn’t been an over-reaction to the Swatch announcement. My understanding (and always happy to be corrected) is that ETA will continue to provide finished ETA movements outside the Swatch Group. What they will not do is supply just the ebauche.
Presumably, there are a bunch of brands out there who buy the ebauche, finish it themselves and so claim to be watchmakers…and presumably at a lower cost than buying a finished movement.
Perhaps the real question is this: What constitutes an ebauche? If TAG fit a decorated rotor to an ETA 2824 and call it a Calibre 17, will anything change? Will ETA still sell TAG Heuer the movement? From what I’ve read, yes.
Of course, what impacts TAG Heuer is very different to what impacts the smaller independent guys, who I accept will now have to buy in full movements.
Is this a seismic change? Maybe I’m missing something, or too focused on what goes on at a large volume producer like TAG.
Cheers
dc
Hi folks,
Interesting point about the potential price increase. In my humble opinion, and if we compare with the automative market, for instance, a broader choice of supplier should not generate any increase.
ETA had a significative market share, and their recent announcement will open (again) a market that they had secured for themselves for quite a long time.
So yes, industry adjustements will have to be made, but that’s quite a good thing, I think.
Considering the importance of this announcement, I think that super high-end brands won’t be impacted as they have their own Calibres. Mid and low-end brands will be impacted, but at this level, do customers really care ? I don’t think so… .
Cheers,
Olivier
good discussion. thanks for the mention Tom.
There is too much focus on names and not enough on quality… Do I want a new ETA made out of tin & plastic (C01.211)? Or do I want a Sea-Gull Venus 175 re-build with blued screws for the same price (or less)… or a solid Russian 3133 (a variation of a Valjoux 7734)? Personally, I’d prefer just a good Swiss or German movement – the challenge is knowing the “good” from “bad” and then getting a good deal for the “good”!
@ Speedmaster you are correct the Sellita’s are direct drop in’s. This will make them an immediate favorite as watch companies won’t have to re-tool cases and dials in order to make them fit.
What matters to me is an in-house movement much more so than a base ETA or Sellita. I have an Omega with an ETA, and while nice, I am now more interested in there Co-Ax movement as it is in house and theoretically of higher quality (longer time between servicing, etc.). This same mindset for me applies across brands. I have a Ball that uses an ETA, but it is not especially accurate (a non Chronometer), but still, the things that matter most in a case like that (to me) are the fit and finish of a watch. This really blurs the lines of several brands when running the same ETA or even a VJ 7750 movement. They run into one another, so therefore, I look towards the manufactures with their in-house movements as I go forward. That changes the price point inevitably, but that is okay to me as a collector/fan who wants something more rare IMO.
@ The Rake – I deinifintely agree, and see the appeal with in-house calibres, I am ALL for innovation and new product. I just have the awful fear that all that R&D and the cost of manufacturing equipment would drastically add to the consumer’s burden. I have no problem with price increases, it’s how things work…as long as they are within a reasonable range. IMO
Great discussion guys, please keep it coming!
Also, we have just secured an interview with the GM of Sellita, is there anything you would like us to ask specifically?
When I worked as a designer for a large aircraft manufactruer we could not find a local reiable
source to paint our structural components. We turned to an auto body shop, trained them and in a matter of weeks began turning out an exceptional product.
The reasons they did so well were (a) they were motviated and saw an opportunity to expand their business (b) the core competencies were there to begin with.
In other words – Switzerland, Germany (not to mention the USA, Italy, Japan, etc.) have tons of companies that have the core competencies needed to manufacture watch parts and movements.
In the watchmaking countries there’s no shortage of no-how and talent. Motivated craftsmen will see an opportunity and set up shops to make bearings, springs, etc.
Then you have other industries – manufacturers that specialize in aerospace, medical devices, Nuclear equipment that can easily adapt and machine anything needed to make a watch. During WWII, Automakers switched over to making tanks, aircraft, guns, etc. Again – the core competencies were there.
If RGM and Kobold can make a significant amount of watch parts using local businesses – in a country where the watchmaking has all but vanished, The Swiss and Germans can do it standing on their heads.
HEck even old man Hayek said it in an interview – “making ebauches is not hard”.
Wow, that’s awesome! I would be interested to know more about their business plan that brought them to this point, and their reaction to any attention they may have gotten due to ETA’s move, and finally how prepared are [were] they for the potential new business.
Thanks for asking, sorry if I asked too much
Let’s not forget Dubois-Dépraz in Switzerland, they used to work with ETA ebauches only and now started using Selitta ones and are in fact also producing their very own movements. We have been using theirs in our high end timepieces and they are excellent (see our Jubilé line). I believe this whole discussion about the effects of ETA not supplying other factories with ebauches any longer (supply of finished movements is not affected) has to be seen in a wider context – the FH and the Swiss government are working on revising the definition of Swiss Made and if they have their way (and I strongly support that notion) Swiss Made watches will have to have a 60% cost share in Switzerland for quartz and 80% for mechanical watches. This will change the watch landscape in Switzerland a lot more than ETA’s most recent move
Why does a “Swiss Made” (whatever that means nowadays) movement need to replace ETA? The Japanes have made equally as good and better movements than ETA for decades, and the Chinese are producing some excellent movements these days. There are plenty of solid alternatives to ETA available.
Hi Jason,
You raise a good point here, but I think, in my humble opinion, that this is about keeping our know-how, and our expertise, in country, more than a question of comparison between japanese, chinese, or whatever, movements.
Stay tuned, we’ll publish very shortly a great overview of this topic, including hot talks with Sellita itself !
@Jason – I think most of us certainly agree that Swiss movements are not the only high quality ones available; the Japanese are top grade and barring the occasional QC issue the Far East is waiting in the wings. When I wrote the original article on Perpetuelle I was strictly thinking of the Swiss industry, its ultra close ties to ETA and if the release of the Sellita auto chrono would effect those producers that wish to remain within the same market.
Well if you are going to publish a overview of Sellita I think it would be correct to make an overview and review of other ETA alternatives aswell. As this could end up like beeing a great promotin for Sellita but leaving others unfairly behind.
Also movement does matter to me, not always but most of the time it does. If I’m buying a “Swiss Made” watch I can’t imagine the watch having a Asian movement, it just doesn’t make sense. Now if I’m buying a watch like a Magrette for example, which I’m buying mostly because of the nice design, I don’t really care what is inside as long as it works, Miyota for example sounds just great.
@ Rok T Understand the original article was not intended to be a brand profile for Sellita, the focus was the release of their long awaited SW500 auto chrono movement, how it related to the 7750 [being a direct drop-in replacement] and how the Swiss market may react to it.
My apologies if it seemed like I was beating the Sellita drum.
I tend to agree that all movements have value regardless of origin, especially now in a time where we constantly hear that wristwatches are going the way of the Dodo [which we all know its not].
Totally agree with @The Watchman
Jason, Rok – no offence meant but it seems you are not aware of the legal regulations reg. “Swiss Made” & “Swiss Movement”. “Swiss Made” at present is a value-added concept (50% of the value added has to be created in Switzerland) and boils down to “movement manufactured in Switzerland, watch cased in Switzerland, QC in Switzerland and watch shipped from Switzerland”. “Swiss Movement” – as in “Swiss Made” but the assembly did not take place in Switzerland. “Swiss Parts” – you can see that on some movements that were assembled abroad using Swiss blanks (however, “Swiss Parts” is not allowed on any other part of the watch but the movement). In short – any brand that wants to be “Swiss Made” needs to use “Swiss Made” movements – regardless of how good Japanese, Chinese etc. movements might be. The upcoming changes reg. “Swissness” will most likely also mean that apart from the movement other parts of the watch have to be manufactured in Switzerland. Some watch companies already fullfil these new & upcoming requirements, others will follow, others cannot follow. For more info on what “Swiss (Made / Movement)” means go to http://www.fhs.ch/en/swissm.php#2.
Thanks for the great discussion guys, keep it coming!
Frank makes some very good points and certainly speaks from a very knowledgable background (for those that don’t know, he is the head of Montres Charmex SA and CX Swiss Military.)
We also wrote an article about what “Swiss Made” actually means not so long ago (you can check it out here: http://thewatchlounge.com/what-does-swiss-made-actually-mean/) and I think its great to see that there is active fight to change the legislation and further strengthen and protect the legitmacy of this title.
I dont think people know whats in the watch, outside of the enthusiasts.
Nor do they care.
I emailed ETA a few months ago, and i had a reply saying , ” not to worry, we will continue to supply complete movements”
So i cant see the impact on the small brands, as they already use complete movements, and while it will hurt the bottom line of larger ones, they will just pass on the extra cost to the consumer, as they always do.
Some will make inhouse movements, some will jump ship to other companies, but i see this whole panic similar to New Year 2000.
To The Rake, i think you might find, that Omega’s co-axial is in the terms of being inhouse, is a little bit of a stretch. I have not looked it up to right here about it, but i was told that ETA might sell them in the future, after Omega has used it exclusively , for what ever time period recoups their expenses etc.
Omega invested in it, but Omega’s movements are ETA’s, and this is based on the 2892.
If i am wrong, i standby to be corrected by the way.
A company as large as the Swatch group, would most likely do it this way, for Taxation reasons.