What’s A Tourbillon Really Worth?
Bell & Ross BR01 Tourbillon
Later this week we will be presenting our “on-the-wrist” review of this watch from Chinese manufacturer, Longio. Whilst not yet on the mainstream radar this Hong Kong based brand is really making a concerted effort to break into the luxury watch market by offering watches that have been constructed fully in-house, including the automatic movement which features a tourbillon complication.
This got us thinking: what is the real value of a tourbillon and its associated variations? Will the introduction of these Chinese made alternatives impact negatively on this value or has the damage already been done through the excessive use of this not so rare complication by over-exuberant European brands attempting to establish their watch making credentials?
Undeniably the tourbillon has to be one of the most commonly used complications in watch-making today, though that’s not to say that its still not an impressive piece of engineering. Notwithstanding that fact, at its heart its purpose is purely aesthetic and offers no tangible benefit to the wearer other than something attractive to look at on the watch dial.
Breguet – the original tourbillon master
It should be acknowledged here though, that there are those who take the art of the Tourbillon to another level. Brands such as Breguet or individuals like Thomas Prescher are names that immediately spring to mind. Thomas’ mind-blowing creations including the Triple-Axis Flying Tourbillon and the Mysterious Automatic Double-Axis Tourbillon provide exemplary illustrations of what a true master is capable of achieving with the tourbillon complication.
However, it seems that for most brands the humble tourbillon is the complication most often called upon to help them make the step from mainstream watch maker into the world of haute horologerie. Arguably this is because of the known complications available (and trust us, there are many more yet to be invented, just look at Ludovic Ballouard’s gloriously original Upside Down watch) the tourbillon is one of the easiest to make relative to the level of impact it has on the wearer. For example, a perpetual calendar, whilst far more useful simply does not have the same visual appeal as a flying tourbillon complication, although many would say that the latter is a redundant technology.
Chinese-made Longio Telamon Diving Watch with Classic Tourbillon complication
So this takes us back to our original question, what is the real value of a tourbillon complication?
In our opinion, the tourbillon is so widely used now that the introduction of Chinese brands which feature this complication (and there are many more than just Longio) will only have a marginal impact on the overall value of the tourbillon. Certainly it will make this attractive complication far more accessible to mainstream consumers but it seems to us that the European brands are doing more than enough to diminish the value of this centuries-old masterpiece of engineering that the impact will simply not be that noticeable.
Which brings us to our next question: is the inclusion of this somewhat common complication enough for a Chinese brand to break into the luxury market?
Again, in our humble opinions we think not. Yes, the fact that Chinese manufacturers have been able to create a tourbillon movement of their own (albeit a not too accurate one at +/- 30 seconds a day) should send up red flags over in Switzerland, but is it really enough to make these brands stand-out? Where is the creativity? European manufacturers have been incorporating tourbillon complications into their high-end timepieces for several decades, in our opinion if Chinese manufacturers really want to have a fighting chance at the upper-end of the market they really need to do something dramatically different!
The Santos 100 by Cartier with tourbillon complication
Of course we could be completely wrong. That’s where you come in, please leave your thoughts in the comments section below, whether you agree with us or not. It would be really great getting some discussion going on this topic as we are very curious to hear what you think!
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Sites That Link to this Post
- The Alpina Extreme Tourbillon Regulator Manufacture | The Watch Lounge – the Online Watch Lover's Magazine | February 18, 2010
- On-The-Wrist Review: Longio SG3824A Flying Tourbillon | The Watch Lounge – the Online Watch Lover's Magazine | March 6, 2010
- Wow Watch Wednesday: Jean Dunand Grande Complication | The Watch Lounge – the Online Watch Lover's Magazine | May 19, 2010
>> “What’s A Tourbillon Really Worth?”
From a timekeeping standpoint alone, I think almost nothing. But as an exercise in art, precision, and engineering, perhaps a great deal.
Here’s a follow-up thought … in these modern times w/ CAD/CAM and high-precision CNC machines being somewhat ubiquitous, is it not really the engineering and finishing feat it once was?
Did you see this WSJ piece from last week?
Shanghai Watch Says Time to Shine Is Now – WSJ.com
“HONG KONG—As guests sipped champagne and nibbled on Manchurian caviar at a Hong Kong watch emporium Tuesday, a female model stalked the room wearing a heavy, diamond-encrusted timepiece valued at about US$100,000.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703455804575056902489368346.html
The tourbillon is now the very first step to enter the real world of watchmaking, but it’s no longer the ultimate goal, as most of the brands master it for decades, I think.
Already some brands have pushed the limits of tourbillon at a point that only very high level masters can reach. You mentionned T. Prescher, that’s a very good example. I’ll mention the Quantum Gravity by Concord, which blew my mind. The world famous 1988 Polso Tourbillon by Vincent Calabrese was also amazing at that time.
Consequently, like every watchmaking part, the key point that makes the difference between well establihed Manufactures and young Asian companies is not “Who can produce a tourbillon ?” any more, but “To which degree of complication can you raise the tourbillon ?”.
And then, to answer your initial question, Tom, my humble answer would be : the real value of a tourbillon is not any more in the ability of making it, but in your capacity to raise it to a level that has never been reached.
On that specific question, I’m not sure asian brands can compete with Swiss brands. They just started the production of tourbillon, it’s too early to expect -complicated- tourbillons.
Well, I agree with you, Tom, Asian brands might try to (re)invent something else dramatically different to raise in the competitive landscape. But what ? Which new complication ? Something like a planetarium ? Already done, with not a lot of success ! A tellurium ? Well, Kepler tried… . A thermometer ? L-E Piguet did it with Frank Muller, not a real success…
It’s still an open question !
Hi guys, thank you for the great comments, please keep them coming!
Thank you also Speedmaster, I did see the article on Twitter the other day and in part it was one of the catalyst’s for this article. I certainly don’t dispute the craftmanship or beauty involved in the creation of a Tourbillon but is this complication in its basic form really enough to launch a brand into the world of Haute Horologerie? I think Olivier is right in the sense that the real value of tourbillon is the ability to take it to new levels, such as Thomas Prescher has done.
In saying that then, I think Asian (and really, any country) brands wanting to break into the lucrative high-end market need to do more than just produce a Tourbillon complication. For example, the value of the watch featured in the WSJ article was really driven by the 45 carats in diamonds that coated it. The basic models retail for about $17,500 which puts them in direct competition with far more established European brands like JLC, IWC, Cartier, Hublot and so forth.
As such, is adding a tourbillon complication really enough to break through to the next stage?
If I can chime in with my limited knowledge thus far. I think there are two factors at work here: one is the redefinition of what luxury is given the changing times (namely that affordable luxury rules), and the other is that it seems China now consumes 25% or so of the world luxury market now after Japan (having just overtaken the US). Combine that with the fact that I believe Chinese consumers in that price range are much more likely to buy Chinese than not, and yes I think there’s good cause to raise a red flag. Will these brands really need to sell outside China anyway? I don’t know.
So it’s probably market forces at work here rather than a potential ability to compete with Swiss made pieces – ability which is not there yet it seems from what I’ve read.
Making a conceited effort, those smug bastards!
Good pick up Alex, thank you. All fixed
I agree with your article, and dont think its going to launch them into the high end market.
I do think it will have an impact on the outrageous prices though, of some Swiss Tourbillon watches, making them perhaps accessible to the next income bracket down. I still wont have the money though!
But in my opinion, i cant see the Chinese watch industry making a significant impact at all in the coming decade.
While some companies now scramble for movements, the issue of ETA will resolve itself.
The average consumer sees ” Made in China ” as a poor quality label, and nothing they do in the short term can repair, the many decades of flooding the markets of every conceivable product, with poor quality items.
I think this is reflected in many watch brands having components, such as the watch cases made in China, but hiding that fact.
If it was to become public knowledge, they could not charge the retail the currently enjoy.
I did mean to finish off with the fact that the Tourbillon seems everywhere now, and with the perception of ” Made in China ” i have outlined above, I see it as passing without being noticed.
Your right in saying they need something new, some impact, but i still cant see ” Made in China ” having any impact at all, Tourbillon or new complication, until they repair the damage done to their reputation.
We all know they can make a quality item, i am just waiting to see when they will.
So it has come to this in the end. This is a discussion which will become more vociferous over the next few years. To some a Tourbillion is just a method for adding 100K to the price of a watch, to others it is an invaluable way to increase the accuracy of a watch.
Whichever is true the cost implications can not be ignored and the rise of ‘constant force’ movements is ever more likely. Not only because of cost and complexity, but also ease of manufacture, maintenance and slimness of the movement.
The issue for constant force advocates is that it is not a flashy ‘in your face’ technology and despite the R&D needed to make it work effectively you are unlikely to be able to charge the client a huge premium for it. Of course the IWC 31 day movement is an exception and they have been able to establish pricing model that works for them.
Will we see many for constant force watches at Baselworld, probably not, more likely next year, will be see lots of Tourbillions, certainly. But do they have the whole game to themselves for much longer, no I don’t think so. Could be an interesting couple of years
I have seen some $3000 Chinese Tourbillons and they are FAR from being luxury products. I don’t think anyone is able to produce a Tourb right now that displays the quality that is expected from this high level of complication at the prices that are expected of the “made in China” moniker. In other words, I am sure the Chinese could produce some quality tourbillons, but no one would buy them. The Japanese manufacturers are perhaps primed for such a move, but they seem to be taking high-end watchmaking one step at a time.
Great comments guys, some really insightful stuff being said here!
I agree Todd and have said as much myself to some of the Chinese manufacturers. First and foremost they need to engage with their consumers and address the issue of the perceived poor quality of their products. Longio have taken the first step towards this by sending out some of their watches to be reviewed by sites like The Watch Lounge, but from what we have seen so far (and you will see more later this week when we publish the official review) they still have a long way to go in the quality stakes, as Marco quite rightly pointed out.
I think your predictions for the future are also quite interesting Ian and I think your bang on the money about BW this year. What the coming years may hold, however, could be quite a different story!
Again guys thank you for the great discussion, please keep the comments coming
It is so wonderful to see such a great community of experts gathering here. I have been converted to a watch lover by the sheer insights provided in these articles and the follow up comments. Great job Tom.
Ramsay
That’s great to hear Ramsay, and thank you so much for the positive feedback and support!
But don’t just thank me, thank all the great contributors to the site and the readers who take the time to write comments. They’re what makes The Watch Lounge really great!